Neu Guinea Compagnie coins

Beiträge: 1956
Registriert: Do 03.09.09 23:11
Wohnort: Huttaheiti, Finsterstes Barbaricum

Re: Neu Guinea Compagnie coins

Beitrag von Mynter » Fr 31.05.19 18:58

Togol hat geschrieben:Okay, now to clarify the diagnostic criteria for PP coins of the period – and relate to the minting process shared previously:
Mynter hat geschrieben:How the minting was done : ... ?id=111608
  1. mirror fields - regular planchets (after pickling to remove oxides, washing, and drying) were hand selected and polished (with chemical?). The dies are suspected to have also been extra-polished for the task.
  2. fully-formed (squared) and sharp rims - the stamping was done multiple times? And/or at greater force?
  3. fully-formed or sharp edge reeding (straight notches) - stamping was done multiple times within a pre-ring (collar)? And/or at greater force?
  4. greater detail in areas of relief (portrait, letters, dots) - stamping was done multiple times? And/or at greater force?
(Let me know if I've missed some criteria)

The J-108 example shared previously in this thread really portrays these differences nicely!

What’s caught my attention is the possibility that “the proof-effect” might carry over to business strikes. I’m guessing the most likely “proof-effect” to carry over would be the mirror fields, the extra-polished dies being then used to stamp regular planchets.

Would such coins be accounted for with the German grading term Erstabschlag? Or is Spiegelglanz more appropriate here?

Additionally, I’d assume even with the minting of business strikes the dies would require routine polishing? Could we then assume the business strikes made following die maintenance would also result in a “proof-effect”?
Erstabschlag meens " early strike " or " first strike " and in the period we are discussing usually refers to the first 100 - 150 specimens struck with fresh dies. In my experience an earlystrike might look like a proof at first glance, but at clother examination it becomes visible that the early strike is lacking the deep mirroring and the somewhat " thicker " look of the relief. I know this sounds a bit weird and it is definetly not easy to pack such a visual impression into words. Perhaps the following illustrations may explain what I mean:
J 177a Early Strike:
J 177a Re EA.JPG
J 177a Proof
J 177a Re PP – Kopi.JPG
( At J 177 the advers always comes matted, so I leave that out )

When a proofdie is used for striking coins for business, I would expect the mirrored fields to turn more and more blind, because the dies would not recive any special care other than cleaning them now and then if they became to oily or planchets got stuck. I hope the effect of such a die being used up in massproduction is visuabel on this revers of a Bayern- 3 Mark ( J 47 ):
J 47 1912 D st PP Re – Kopi.JPG
In such a processs of massproduction it would be exiting to compare speciems struck with relativly fresh proofdies to those who are, lets say another 200.000 strikes later in the productionrun. My hypotesis is that the latest struck specimens would be just a little more shiny than business- strikes, perhaps a bit like as an earlystrike. So if the whole lot of the New- Guinea- 5 - Mark should have been produced with one pair of dies only and this diepair be a diepair originally prepared for mintig proofs, I would expect those coins to have a somewhat more shinier finish than coins struck with ordinary dies.
Grüsse, Mynter

Beiträge: 1956
Registriert: Do 03.09.09 23:11
Wohnort: Huttaheiti, Finsterstes Barbaricum

Re: Neu Guinea Compagnie coins

Beitrag von Mynter » Fr 31.05.19 20:18

I forgot about the Spiegelglanz.
Spiegelglanz is the correct term now used in Germany instead of Polierte Platte. According to Jaeger the last proof called Polierte Platte was the Fichte - commemorative of 1964. after that german proofs are called Spiegelglanz. Jaeger discribes the difference, in my opinion it is not of any consequence for the appearence of the coins.
Grüsse, Mynter

Beiträge: 1956
Registriert: Do 03.09.09 23:11
Wohnort: Huttaheiti, Finsterstes Barbaricum

Re: Neu Guinea Compagnie coins

Beitrag von Mynter » So 02.06.19 14:56

Mentioning coins only from an economical point of view, but quit interesting a the wider unerstanding of the matter : ... 117311632X
Grüsse, Mynter

Beiträge: 1956
Registriert: Do 03.09.09 23:11
Wohnort: Huttaheiti, Finsterstes Barbaricum

Re: Neu Guinea Compagnie coins

Beitrag von Mynter » Mo 03.06.19 11:32

Mynter hat geschrieben:How the minting was done : ... ?id=111608
The encyklopedia- article is mainly based on : Schlösser, E : Die Münztechnik, Verlag Hahnsche Buchhandlung, Hannover, 1884
Grüsse, Mynter

Beiträge: 7
Registriert: Mo 27.05.19 06:44
Wohnort: Bismarck-Archipel

Re: Neu Guinea Compagnie coins

Beitrag von Togol » Sa 08.06.19 09:19

Togol hat geschrieben:I’m certain the accuracy of this estimate [of PP coins] can be improved with information obtained from:
  • Auction House results (there is definitely more than 1 PP piece for each Neu Guinea coin type).
I have since had time to look at public auction appearances of PP coins over the last 10 years. This investigation was limited to Auction Houses with digital archives available online and would represent the minimum availability of PP coins from 2009-today. I stress minimum availability as (1) not all Auction Houses surveyed had digital archives available from 2009, with some starting only in 2011, and (2) the absence of archived data concerning private sales (e.g., MA-Shops, Ebay, independent websites, etc.).

To account for multiple auction appearances of the same individual coin, I also examined the accompanying photos and TPG certification numbers. This allows for a comparison between frequency of appearance and the number of unique coins available.

# of appearances (# of unique coins)
J-701 PP: 1 Pfennig
  • 4 (4)
J-702 PP: 2 Pfennig
  • 8 (5)
J-703 PP: 10 Pfennig
  • 11 (10)
J-704 PP: 1/2 Mark
  • 20 (16)
J-705 PP: 1 Mark
  • 12 (11)
J-706 PP: 2 Mark
  • 19 (18)
J-707 PP: 5 Mark
  • 29 (25)
J-708 PP: 10 Mark
  • 6 (6)
J-709 PP: 20 Mark
  • 9 (6)
The data suggests individual 1 and 2 pfennig coins come to public action far less (1/5 to 1/2 as frequent) than the 10 pfennig or silver coins. However, I am unsure if this observation reliably relates to differences in the original minting figures. One alternative theory to explain the fewer 1 and 2 pfennig appearances at public auction might be their relatively lower value (generally 500 - 1.200 euro) results in disproportionately lower representation in public auctions, compared to private sales.

It also looks like most coins (~85 %) only appeared at auction once in the ten year period. I have no knowledge of the 'average' period of ownership for rare coins, but it seems a collector of Neu Guinea PP coins wishing to obtain a specific individual coin must certainly be patient!

In conclusion, I am quite surprised that differences in frequency of public auction appearance were not more dramatic. When looking at minting figures of DOA PP coins for the 1906 1 Heller (15 coins) and 1906 1/4 rupie (118 coins), the difference is nearly eight times!

NB: Auction Houses from which data was collected - Künker, Kricheldorf, CNG, Grün, Hess Divo, Dr Busso Peus, Sonntag, WAG, Teutoburger, Sicona, DNW, London Coins, Stack's Bowers, Heritage, Goldberg, Leonard, Auction World, Ginza, Noble Numismatics

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