Numismatikforum

I ask an earnest coin-question, and do so without suggesting anything that could conceivably color an answer.

How should the phrase "Gott Mit Uns" be understood in English?

v.

'God be with us'
Compareable to the American 'In God we trust'
Thats what i always thought about it.
Kind regards
Frederik

Thanks usen .

But I will persist...because I'm deciding (on this subject) whether to dump many decades of American coin-hobby tradition overboard.

"Gott Mit Uns"....is not, in English, "God is with us"?

v.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gott_mit_uns

Gott mit uns (meaning God with us) is a phrase commonly associated with the German military from the German Empire to the end of the Third Reich, although its historical origins are far older, ultimately tracing back to the Hebrew term Immanuel from the Bible. The Russian Empire's motto also translates to this.

Thanks for the Wikipedia entry, Bomberleo.

I’m trying to understand whether the WWI entrance of “Gott mit uns” into the American popular lexicon accurately reflects its native meaning.
“Gott mit uns” (in the American mind) became a symbol of German arrogance, as in “God is with Us.”

But a few years ago I realized that some coins from the Netherlands carry a similar formulation: “God zij met ons.”

I began to suspect—since the (very positively regarded Hollanders) used something like “Gott mit uns”—that the German phrase might not be as unconditional as wartime translations had it, and that the phrase might not be as boastful as it was portrayed. Perhaps something more like “(If we have) God with us (we cannot fail).”

The Wikipedia entry seems to argue against a more benign translation, and tends more to the Allies’ WWI (and later) understanding of the motto. With the emphasis on the motto's military use and the exclamation (!) mark especially: “Gott mit uns!” But?

Any further help understanding the true nature of how this motto was used on Deutsche coinage is very welcome....

v.

villa66 hat geschrieben:Any further help understanding the true nature of how this motto was used on Deutsche coinage is very welcome....

v.

GOTT MIT UNS had been common as a rim inscription on prussion coins since the Napoleonic wars. When in 1871 the single currency was introduced the motto was continued on the new coinage as it was rather difficult to counterfait. A quick look at the types usually helps to decide wether or not a coin is genuine. Especially the type of G is hard to get by for forgers. Some experts say no forger ever has managed to produce a perfect fake.

Perhaps it might interest you that origionaly there were intensions to supply the 10 and 20 - marks with the legend of EINIGKEIT MACHT STARK ( Unity makes strong )

Regards, Mynter

Hi villa,

I think the translation expresses the wish "(be) God with us". You will find the same words in the Bavarian anthem from the 19th century ...

Gott mit uns, dem Bayernvolke,
dass wir, unsrer Väter wert,
fest in Eintracht und in Frieden
bauen unseres Glückes Herd ...

... and it's hard to believe that their more northern neighbours, the Prussians, at the same time used the invocation in a different way.

Regards klaupo

I thank you, klaupo . (And usen!) Time to change my thinking, and to dump the WWI propaganda overboard. From now on I will regard "Gott mit uns" as having a hopeful aspect--or at the very least, a conditional quality--instead of its being an expression of boastful certitude, as it was portrayed.

And thank you Mynter, for the tip regarding the "G."

v.