Wie sich eine Münze verändern kann...

[beachcomber]

hallo stefan,
natürlich hat sebastian recht, wenn er zur vorsicht mahnt. und natürlich ist das (eher schlechte) foto von steve in einem anderen winkel aufgenommen.
das ändert aber nichts daran, dass diese münze bearbeitet wurde, und zwar nicht nur mit säuren und anderen bürsten.
der gesichtsausdruck ist vollkommen verändert. im originalzustand ist hadrian noch als ein mild lächelnder, und in salems version ist ein mürrisch dreinschauender kaiser zu sehen!
grüsse
frank

[Faramir]

Also ich habe jetzt mal etwas mit Gimp und transparenten Ebenen herumgespielt. Ich bin ziemlich sicher, das die Postraits die gleichen äußeren Dimensionen und Abgrenzungen haben. Die Bilder im Gif liegen nicht exakt Stempel auf Stempel, sondern sind am unterschiedlich großen Rand orientiert. Das verursacht dann ein "Wandern" des Portraits. Die Bearbeitung des Portraits ansich stelle ich nicht in Frage.

Gruß
Sebastian

[quisquam]

Frank, mir ging es auch nur darum, dass der vermeintlich objektive Beweis gar nicht so objektiv und stichhaltig ist. Wobei im Gegensatz zu dem was ich oben geschrieben habe die Bilder doch nicht gegeneinander verdreht sind.

Daran, dass diese Münze übelst bearbeitet ist zweifel ich natürlich auch nicht. Das Übereinanderlegen ist gar nicht nötig um zu sehen, dass der Münze kein Gefallen getan wurde.

Grüße, Stefan

[holyland@vcoins]

Dear all
here is a photo for the coin after I treated it with Acid and returen it to Zero to see if there is any tracks of tooling.
and the nose is the same, the imagination photo you are showing is not acuret, put the coins next each other and see your self, that imagination Vedio is not acuret at all, you cant add things that are not on the coin???
and look at the old photo of the coin, it is not clear and it is not prefect, it is bloury.
plz see the attached photo after I cleaned the coin to Zero.
best regards
Salem

[helcaraxe]

The item does not exist.

...

[beachcomber]

hi salem,
thank you for the photo!
but compare for yourself!

[Pscipio]

Thanks for this pic, Salem. It looks to me now that the mouth is correct, but all the details have deepened, or strengthened, as is probably the correct term. And of course the coin has been repatinated, which you assured me several times you never do. Can we see the reverse as well?

You may of course address my age - that is your right. Not that it has much to do with the topic, though.

Good night!
Pscipio

[beachcomber]

hi pscipio,
i'm sorry, but no, this is not deepend and strenghtened - this is tooled!
look at the shiny parts of salems' new picture, there is defenitely no patina at all, because it was tooled. and anyway, even on the 'blurry' coin as steve sold it, there is , below the 'fat' patina, in some parts more detail, as on the coin after salems' treatment (the eyes for instance, the hair..)
regards
frank

[Peter43]

Ein Haarvergleich!

[schnecki]

@ alle

mich würde auch interessieren , was geschrieben wurde , aber leider ist mein englisch nicht so gut ! etwas habe ich schon verstanden , aber eine übersetzung für nicht englisch sprechende wäre angebracht !
bitte !!!

[holyland@vcoins]

first of all I asked if Steve have better and clear photo so I show you that the coin as Steve described . This is one of the nicest depictions on the Pharos I have been able to reference.
and to show you the red dirt that was covering the detailes which I removed, because you cant compare clear photo as mine with bloury photo like Steves.
and Lars this is not the real Patina of the coin, this is after brushing with brass brush and chimecly hide the patina, the original Patina is still there and who is an expert in cleaning can support that, it is just hidded after brushing but I can reserve it back.
I cant explain more and I did my best to be open, and I am sending the coin to an expert in this field to determine if the coin was tooled or profesionally cleaned, who ever saw my methood with bronze dirty coins know very well that I clean coins very very well, and if this all about to reveal my cleaning methoods I will be sorry to say it wont work.
here is the rev
regards
Salem

[holyland@vcoins]

I marked all the red dirt and the green dirt that was removed from the coin at Steve photo, and still the coin will be in the way to an expert by tomorow to show you folks that cleaning is an Art, and you can remove alot of dirt and make the coin nicer if you realy know how to deal with it and clean it.
the coin Lars was already very sharp but dirty, it wasent treated well, thats all, and that is the end of the story tell I have David Sear oponion at the coin, if some one here knows better than him I will send it to him.
plz dont talk more about this issue and dont try to damage my reputation for what ever the reason is???? and wait and see, when the Experts say there words, non experts should just look and wonder .
regards
Salem

[Pscipio]

Salem,

if anybody is damaging your reputation, then it is you by altering coins (be it repatination or tooling) and selling them undisclosed and by lying about it. So if you are concerned about your reputation, I suggest to stop altering coins, to stop lying about it, and to stop insulting other dealers and collectors. Think about it!

Case closed for me.

Lars

[El Che]

that is the end of the story tell I have David Sear oponion at the coin

Let's wait and see!

Best regards,
Uli

[Pscipio]

Nach Rücksprache mit Bill Puetz klinke ich mich ab hier aus dieser Diskussion aus. Ich werde allenfalls noch moderierend eingreifen.

After talking to Bill Puetz about the issue, I will quit this discussion from now on. I will at most moderate the thread, if necessary.

Lars