2 unidentified pfennig (Thuin??)

[A]

Hello,

These two coins are very unlike. But about of each of them there are assumptions of their origin from Thuin.
First coin-Dbg. 1945
Second coin (Rev. at least ) is similar to Dbg. 286.
I ask to help to define these coins more precisely.

Thanks in advance.
Anton

[Oleg_R]

Hi, Anton!
A coin № 15a - a unknown mint place in Niederlothringen
Heinrich III (?) (Numismatische studien Heft 10, Taf.5, 62-63)
Greetings.

[A]

....

[A]

Hello, Oleg.
Thanks for the reference. I hoped, that exist a more exact information, than "unknown mint place".
Here two more puzzles from 11 century. I hope, easier, than previous.

Pic. 017a similar to Dbg. 1283,1284 by Obv. Koln???
Pic. 003a similar to bishopric minting of Koln, but....

[Oleg_R]

Hello Anton!
The coin 003a is Utrecht, bishop Wilhelm, 2. Phase, similar Ilisch 10.12, 10.13
You also can see the letter "M" as on Dbg. 1830.
The coin 017a is a variant of the imitation, one of many.
Have you taken pleasure from such attributation?

[A]

Hello, Oleg,

Many thanks for Utrecht.
As to "imitation", it is not convincing for me.
I cannot take pleasure from attributation of any uncertain coin as imitation. If it is an imitation what is an original? This coin have normal quality, usual for official mints; series, at least of three types with the identical one side but various other side, is known. I'm assured, these three coins (Dbg.1283,1284 and my pic.017a) was issued in the same mintplace, and it is not a private mint.

Greetings

A.