Schöne, seltene bzw. interessante Münzen des Gordianus III

[briac]

because Gordian is a common emperor and we are realy few to collect this emperor... (I don't even know 20 collections in all world)

I also have some of those denarii (IOVI CONSERVATORI, VICTORIA AVG, P M TR P II Victoria and P M TR P II Virtus) so 4 of the 9 known types! And 2 years ago, prices for those was only 500-800... in 2019, they became 2 times higher without any reasons because alls specimens sold this year are new specimens and so they become commonest...

The PAX sold this year is the 5th specimen I know, the 3rd was sold for 700€ the 5th for more than 1000!
The P M TR P II Fides is the 4th, the 2 last I saw for sale made 500 ant 815€... this one 1300!

those prices are crazy... even more because it's probably a fourree... check in the neck of Fides... we can see the bronze...

just to vive you an idea here ares prices of mines (see joined pictures)

P M TR P II victoria (only specimen known) 200€
P M TR P II Virtus (4 specimens known )500
VICTORIA AVG (8 specimens )800
IOVI CONSERVATORI (3 specimens) finded on ebay for $40!!!!!

so I payed 1500€ for 4 coins! now, it's around 1600 (including fees) for 1 it's crazy...

[hjk]

Den hatte ich auch im Blick (und bei 750 € auch gleich wieder vergessen). Trotzdem bin ich über den erzielten Preis nicht erstaunt: "IMP C M ANT GORDIANVS AVG" gibt es lt. RIC auf Quinarii (Seltenheit s.o.) und auf einem Denar (RIC 045, LIBERALITAS AVG II). Die sind alle so selten, dass ich von denen bisher noch nicht mal ein Bild gesehen habe. Und der verkaufte Denar war bisher wohl noch garnicht bekannt (zumindest nicht in RIC). Und das zusammen mit der hervorragenden Erhaltung = Preis, den ich nicht bezahlen kann/will.


Nachtrag: Oh verdammt - jetzt hab ich unmittelbar nach meinem Post gleich mehrere gesehen. War ja fast klar, von wem

[briac]

HJK, I can provide you pictures of all specimens... those are rare it's true... but just have a look here... https://www.academia.edu/38320407/BULLE ... 238_et_239

14 of 1st issue (in 3 types) and the PAX sold this year is not in...

9 of 2nd issue (in 5 types) and 2 Fides missing

and also 5 IMP CAES M ANT revers P M TR P II Iovi

just from my database... are 31 denarii of 1st and second issue...

[Wall-IE]

Und ich selbst kann immer noch nur 1 Exemplar (Virtus) dieser Denarreihe vorweisen.
Mal sehen ob es mir ihrgendwann gelingt die Reihe zu komplettieren.

[hjk]

Na ja - jetzt durfte ich sie wenigstens mal sehen. Im "Angebot" gibt's da halt eher wenig - und das ist dann auch noch so richtig teuer (wie wohl alle Reichsmünzen, die fehlen und eigentlich noch in meine Sammlung wandern sollten).

Ich weiche deshalb jetzt zunehmend auf Provinz-Gordis aus: das Ziel ist, aus möglichst jeder Provinz-Prägestätte für Gordian mindestens ein Exemplar (obwohl auch das zunehmend teurer wird ).

[briac]

I wish you to do it hjk, but so far I know, there is a lot of types and many realy rare cities......

for Iconium I have in my database 80 coins from 24 types...
for Antiochia Pisidia, I recently provide a die study to my editor (not yet published) within 33 obverse dies, 129 reverse dies , 168 die links, classification in 2 issues for 61 references
for some cities like Choma (Lycia), I only know 4 coins, Magydos (Pamphylia) 1 coin, Ablade, Ariassus, Codrula, Pogla and Verbe (Pisidia) 1 or 2 coins only in my database...

Wall-IE, it's realy hard to get the all set because I will not sell my unique P M TR P II victoria and even more because of actual prices...

a french collector I know have 5 of thoses coins within 2 IMP CAES M ANT Iovi, 1 P M TR P II fides, 1 PAX, 1 P M TR P II Virtus. He did sold me my own P M TR P II Virtus so with time, you will find the coins... my father did start the Collection of Gordian III more than 40 year's ago, I only got my 1st IMP C M ANT denarius in 2007, and my quinarius did arrive by luck on ebay at christmas 2009... with time all can happend

[briac]

I rarely see roman provincial coins here so I share with you my own coins from Iconium, Lycaonia.

1) AE 16 Marsyas
IMP CAS M ATO GOPDIANO
laurate, draped and cuirassed bust right seen from behind
COL I | C | ONIE || S R
Marsyas advancing left raising hand and carrying wine-skin over shoulder
1.77g, 16mm
5 specimens known

2) Ae 34 Roma seated left
IMP CAES M AT GORDIANVS AVG
laurate, draped and cuirassed bust right seen from behind
COL ELI HAD ICONIHS || S R
Roma seated on shield left, holding small figure of victoria and spear ; below harpa of perseus
34 mm, 24.28g
2 specimens known

3)IMP CAES M AT GORDIANVS AVG
laurate, draped and cuirassed bust right seen from behind
COL AEL ICONIEN || S R
Founder of the colony, ploughing with bull and cow right; in the background 2 vexilla; below harpa of Perseus.
33mm, 18.01g
3 or 4 specimens known, V. Aulock quote 1 specimen (v. Aulock Lykaoniens 329 = Paris ; 13.67 g) lost

4) IMP C M ANTONI GORDIANVS
laurate, draped and cuirassed bust right seen from behind
COL AEL HA | D AVG ICON || S R
Fortuna seated left, holding harpa of Perseus and cornucopia, wheel leaning against throne at her feet, ruder and river god swimming
26.97g
5 specimens known

obverse die of 2nd and 3 rd coinsfirstly used in Antiochia Pisidia and moved with Gordian and army to Iconium in 242 when the war against Shapur did start.

So far I know, there is for the all city 23 types and only 80 or 81 coins known the commonest (not yet in my collection) is the AE 27 with 23 specimens in my database.

[Wall-IE]

Anbei meine neueste Erwerbung, von welcher ich nicht so recht weiß, wie ich sie einordnen soll: Stil und Ausprägung sprechen für eine stadtrömische Ausgabe (vgl. RIC 87), auch das Gewicht ist mit 3,16 gr. noch in Ordnung.
Was mich jedoch irrtiert, ist das verprägte Metall, da es sich vorliegend um Kupfer/Erz handelt und nicht um Silber.

Kann es sich vorliegend um eine versehentliche Prägung in einem falschen Material oder um eine sehr gute, zeitgenössische Fälschung aus offiziellen Stempeln handeln ?

Herkunft: ex. Savoca Coins, 26th Blue Auction Los 1371

Lg Wall-IE

[briac]

Dear Wall-IE, I just checked Savoca's picture because your's are too dark...to my eyes, this in an ancient cast... writing are too thick, the hairs are badly made... I don't think it could be an official roman coin...

[shanxi]

Interesting. Cast antoniniani seem to be rare, usually we see only cast denarii.

The hair might be tooled:

https://www.biddr.ch/auctions/savoca/br ... 2&l=882897

[briac]

I recently received as gift this mould of ancient faker...

this antoninianus was probably made with something like that

[briac]

Just won this special denarius on ebay, actually the only specimen I ever saw...

3.26g, 21mm

this special type of Sol is also know for some rare sestertii (12 specimens from 4 reverse dies see my own specimen below)

I believe those should be linked to the rare aureus with whip... and maybe to a special issue but I would get other advices... what do you think about?

[curtislclay]

Nice acquisition!

Gordian's Issue 3 of 240 AD included denarii only, no antoniniani, apparently his attempt to reinstate the denarius as the standard silver coin rather than the antoninianus.

That attempt seems to have continued at the beginning of Issue 4, two of whose types were dated TR P III (still 240) and are known on both denarii and antoniniani. Presumably denarii only were struck at the beginning of the issue, then the experiment was canceled and the mint switched to antoniniani, which now became the standard silver denomination for the next several decades.

AETERNITATI AVG was one of the types of Issue 4, so its denarii were some of the earliest coins of the issue, struck only in 240 until superseded by antoniniani with the same type. One could suppose that the type of your denarius, with Sol standing r. (weight on l. leg), head l., and with cloak hanging behind him on both sides, was the earliest variant, soon simplified by eliminating the cloak on the left.

The simplified Sol type, still standing r., head l., but cloak shown on r. only (see picture below), then continued until the denarii were superseded by antoniniani before the end of 240, and a little beyond. A few antoniniani, presumably the earliest of the denomination, still showed the standing r., head l. type of the denarii. Then the type was further simplified to just Sol standing l., weight on r. leg (second picture), and was struck in this form until the end of the issue in 243.

[Wall-IE]

Glückwunsch. Dies Detail ist mir noch nie aufgefallen
Ich sollte mir die "gängigen" Typen doch wohl genauer anschauen...

[briac]

Thanks Curtis, so you confirm my idea than a classification can be finded in this serie...

I wish to find dupondius to finish the AETERNITATI set...