Severer-Special
Moderator: Homer J. Simpson
- kijach
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Re: Severer-Special
Da hab ich 2 Caracalla-Denare zum zeigen, einmal jung und einmal alt
Wie findet ihr sie?
M AVR ANTON CAES PONTIF
MARTI VLTORI
2,64g, 16mm
ANTONINVS PIVS AVG BRIT
PMTRP XV COS III PP
3,04g, 18mm
Wie findet ihr sie?
M AVR ANTON CAES PONTIF
MARTI VLTORI
2,64g, 16mm
ANTONINVS PIVS AVG BRIT
PMTRP XV COS III PP
3,04g, 18mm
Jetzt auch Griechen-Sammler!
- pepone
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Re: Severer-Special
Ein etwas abgelutschter Denar des Septimius Severus den ich schon länger in meiner Sammlung habe.
Gekauft hab ich ihn wegen dem Doppelschlag.
Av.: L SEPT SEV PERT AVG IMP III, Kopf mit Lorbeerkranz n. r.
Rv.: LIBERO PATRI, Bacchus mit Thyrsos u. Kanne, zu seinen Füßen ein Panther
RIC 32
Gekauft hab ich ihn wegen dem Doppelschlag.
Av.: L SEPT SEV PERT AVG IMP III, Kopf mit Lorbeerkranz n. r.
Rv.: LIBERO PATRI, Bacchus mit Thyrsos u. Kanne, zu seinen Füßen ein Panther
RIC 32
Re: Severer-Special
Ein neues Werk, das angeblich die kompletten Ausgaben Septimius Severus umfasst...
http://www.coinbooks.com/esylum_v16n38a03.html
Dazu Barry P. Murphy im us-amerikanischen Forum:
"So I downloaded the book and looked up 6 coins that I've published here or elsewhere and none of them show up in your Complete Coinage.
I then tried to look for a coin with your reverse legend 355, TR P IIII IMP II COS II, which you list as a known reverse legend. A search in your book for R355 doesn't yield any results. So you list the legend but don't list a varieties with that legend.
I'm not sure you should be giving people a hard time for listing things as unpublished when they haven't checked your Complete Coinage which my quick perusal has shown to be far from complete.
As long as you keep using the format you've developed for Eric where the user has to look up every bust type, obverse legend, reverse legend, reverse type, mint #, then write that all down, then scan through column after column of numbers looking for an exact match, then start from scratch when you have to look up a second coin, no one's ever going to cite your book as a reference. It's just too complicated to use."
Und Doug Smith:
"When I reviewed ERIC II, I became very much of the opinion that the format was a poor fit for Eastern Septimius. The system requiring finding the obverse details first and going through a series of steps ending with the reverse type is impossible to use with a series of coins with so many minor legend variations. Had the first field in the sort been the reverse type so minor things like the differences between IIC, IICO and IICOS obverses would have ended up with adjacent positions in the list, I might have found more user friendliness there but as it is, the chance of making all the right choices to lead to a 'final' level ID was chancy even if it was there. As I recall there were coins in the plates of ERICII that either were not in the list or that I was too unskilled to be able to track down.
While it is wonderful to have a catalog of what has sold in major indexed auctions, these big houses are not exactly where one goes to find things that exist only in low grade and extremely low quantity. Any collector of this series is likely to have a coin or twenty that are 'unpublished' using the definition 'not in RIC' and not in the major sales. Using the word 'complete' raises the hopes of those of us who would love to see a revised RIC for Septimius. When I saw that this eBook was just a subset of the next ERIC (meaning it would use that same laundry list organization) and when I saw neither Barry nor Martin were in on the project, I lost interest.
I do wonder if the results for Pescennius Niger would be different because a higher percentage of his coins that sell pass through the big name sellers. There would still be the problem of so many variant legends for both sides and so many coins existing only in part legend condition with less than completely predictable completions for the gaps. In this field a 'complete' catalog is going to be a die study. We might expect the later Rome section to be a better fit to the system but the mess we call 193 to 196 with multiple mints each following their own rules is not the place to risk a word like 'complete'."
http://www.coinbooks.com/esylum_v16n38a03.html
Dazu Barry P. Murphy im us-amerikanischen Forum:
"So I downloaded the book and looked up 6 coins that I've published here or elsewhere and none of them show up in your Complete Coinage.
I then tried to look for a coin with your reverse legend 355, TR P IIII IMP II COS II, which you list as a known reverse legend. A search in your book for R355 doesn't yield any results. So you list the legend but don't list a varieties with that legend.
I'm not sure you should be giving people a hard time for listing things as unpublished when they haven't checked your Complete Coinage which my quick perusal has shown to be far from complete.
As long as you keep using the format you've developed for Eric where the user has to look up every bust type, obverse legend, reverse legend, reverse type, mint #, then write that all down, then scan through column after column of numbers looking for an exact match, then start from scratch when you have to look up a second coin, no one's ever going to cite your book as a reference. It's just too complicated to use."
Und Doug Smith:
"When I reviewed ERIC II, I became very much of the opinion that the format was a poor fit for Eastern Septimius. The system requiring finding the obverse details first and going through a series of steps ending with the reverse type is impossible to use with a series of coins with so many minor legend variations. Had the first field in the sort been the reverse type so minor things like the differences between IIC, IICO and IICOS obverses would have ended up with adjacent positions in the list, I might have found more user friendliness there but as it is, the chance of making all the right choices to lead to a 'final' level ID was chancy even if it was there. As I recall there were coins in the plates of ERICII that either were not in the list or that I was too unskilled to be able to track down.
While it is wonderful to have a catalog of what has sold in major indexed auctions, these big houses are not exactly where one goes to find things that exist only in low grade and extremely low quantity. Any collector of this series is likely to have a coin or twenty that are 'unpublished' using the definition 'not in RIC' and not in the major sales. Using the word 'complete' raises the hopes of those of us who would love to see a revised RIC for Septimius. When I saw that this eBook was just a subset of the next ERIC (meaning it would use that same laundry list organization) and when I saw neither Barry nor Martin were in on the project, I lost interest.
I do wonder if the results for Pescennius Niger would be different because a higher percentage of his coins that sell pass through the big name sellers. There would still be the problem of so many variant legends for both sides and so many coins existing only in part legend condition with less than completely predictable completions for the gaps. In this field a 'complete' catalog is going to be a die study. We might expect the later Rome section to be a better fit to the system but the mess we call 193 to 196 with multiple mints each following their own rules is not the place to risk a word like 'complete'."
Zuletzt geändert von emieg1 am Di 09.12.14 11:06, insgesamt 1-mal geändert.
- ga77
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Re: Severer-Special
Einen seltenen As von Septimius konnte ich schon vor einiger Zeit ergattern. Nun ist er endlich bei mir angekommen. Leider schwer zu fotografieren mit der fleckigen Patina. Ich habe bisher noch kein Bild von diesem Typen gesehen.
Septimius Severus (193 – 211 AD)
AE As, Rome, 198
L SEPT SEV PERT AVG IMP X;
Laureate head right
P M TR P VI COS II P P, S-C;
Sol, radiate, standing left, raising right hand and holding whip
8,33 gr, 24 mm
RIC IVa, 749; BMC V, p. 155†; C. 451
Valete
Gabriel
Septimius Severus (193 – 211 AD)
AE As, Rome, 198
L SEPT SEV PERT AVG IMP X;
Laureate head right
P M TR P VI COS II P P, S-C;
Sol, radiate, standing left, raising right hand and holding whip
8,33 gr, 24 mm
RIC IVa, 749; BMC V, p. 155†; C. 451
Valete
Gabriel
- Homer J. Simpson
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Re: Severer-Special
Oh ja, gerade aus dieser mittleren Zeit gibt's ja SEHR wenig Bronzen. Glückwunsch von
Homer
Homer
Wo is'n des Hirn? --- Do, wo's hiig'hört! --- Des glaab' i ned!
- ga77
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Re: Severer-Special
Und noch einer:
Severus Alexander (222 – 235 AD)
AE Dupondius, Rome, 223
IMP CAES M AVR SEV ALEXANDER AVG;
Radiate, draped and cuirassed bust right
PONTIF MAX TR P II COS P P, SC in exergue;
Securitas seated left, by lighted altar, holding sceptre and supporting her head on left hand
10,17 gr, 25 mm
RIC IVb, 408; BMC VI, 125; C. 465
Ex Art Coins Roma, eAuction 19, lot 499
Valete
Gabriel
Severus Alexander (222 – 235 AD)
AE Dupondius, Rome, 223
IMP CAES M AVR SEV ALEXANDER AVG;
Radiate, draped and cuirassed bust right
PONTIF MAX TR P II COS P P, SC in exergue;
Securitas seated left, by lighted altar, holding sceptre and supporting her head on left hand
10,17 gr, 25 mm
RIC IVb, 408; BMC VI, 125; C. 465
Ex Art Coins Roma, eAuction 19, lot 499
Valete
Gabriel
- ga77
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Re: Severer-Special
Ich konnte wieder drei neue Stücke ergattern. Zwei davon sind Asse von Caracalla mit einer eher weniger häufigen Büstenvariante:
1)
Caracalla (198 – 217 AD)
AE As, Rome, 215
ANTONINVS PIVS AVG GERM;
Laureate and cuirassed bust right, seen from the back
P M TR P XVIII COS IIII P P, S-C;
Aesculapius standing front, holding serpent-wreathed wand, globe to right, Telesphorus to left
10,84 gr, 25 mm
RIC IVa, 554b var. (head of Aesculapius to left); BMC V, 295 var. (Laureate, draped and cuirassed bust); C. 310 var. (Laureate, draped and cuirassed bust)
Ex Busso Peus, Auktion 413, lot 399
2)
Caracalla (198 – 217 AD)
AE As, Rome, 216
ANTONINVS PIVS AVG GERM;
Laureate and cuirassed bust right, seen from the back
P M TR P XVIIII COS IIII P P, SC in exergue;
Pluto, wearing polos, seated left, right hand on knee, holding sceptre in left, Cerberus to left
11,27 gr, 26 mm
RIC IVa, 560 var. (obv. legend; laureate head); BMC V, 302A; C. 352 var. (obv. legend; laureate head)
3)
Severus Alexander (222 – 235 AD)
AE Dupondius, Rome, 224
IMP CAES M AVR SEV ALEXANDER AVG;
Radiate and draped bust right
PONTIF MAX TR P III COS P P, S-C;
Emperor in military dress standing left, holding globe and inverted spear
12,23 gr, 25 mm
RIC IVb, 420; BMC VI, 186; C. 476
Valete
Gabriel
1)
Caracalla (198 – 217 AD)
AE As, Rome, 215
ANTONINVS PIVS AVG GERM;
Laureate and cuirassed bust right, seen from the back
P M TR P XVIII COS IIII P P, S-C;
Aesculapius standing front, holding serpent-wreathed wand, globe to right, Telesphorus to left
10,84 gr, 25 mm
RIC IVa, 554b var. (head of Aesculapius to left); BMC V, 295 var. (Laureate, draped and cuirassed bust); C. 310 var. (Laureate, draped and cuirassed bust)
Ex Busso Peus, Auktion 413, lot 399
2)
Caracalla (198 – 217 AD)
AE As, Rome, 216
ANTONINVS PIVS AVG GERM;
Laureate and cuirassed bust right, seen from the back
P M TR P XVIIII COS IIII P P, SC in exergue;
Pluto, wearing polos, seated left, right hand on knee, holding sceptre in left, Cerberus to left
11,27 gr, 26 mm
RIC IVa, 560 var. (obv. legend; laureate head); BMC V, 302A; C. 352 var. (obv. legend; laureate head)
3)
Severus Alexander (222 – 235 AD)
AE Dupondius, Rome, 224
IMP CAES M AVR SEV ALEXANDER AVG;
Radiate and draped bust right
PONTIF MAX TR P III COS P P, S-C;
Emperor in military dress standing left, holding globe and inverted spear
12,23 gr, 25 mm
RIC IVb, 420; BMC VI, 186; C. 476
Valete
Gabriel
- chinamul
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Re: Severer-Special
Gerade bei eBay F für genau 50 € brutto ersteigert:
SEVERUS ALEXANDER 222 – 235
Æ As Rom 222 - 231
Av.: IMP SEV ALEXANDER AVG - Belorbeerter Kopf rechts, auf der linken Schulter leicht drapiert
Rv.: LIBERALITAS AVGVSTI IIII S C - Liberalitas nach links stehend; in der Rechten Münzdispenser,
in der Linken Füllhorn
RIC 577; C. 137
Ø 26 mm / 10,58 g ; Stempelstellung 11 h
Gruß
chinamul
SEVERUS ALEXANDER 222 – 235
Æ As Rom 222 - 231
Av.: IMP SEV ALEXANDER AVG - Belorbeerter Kopf rechts, auf der linken Schulter leicht drapiert
Rv.: LIBERALITAS AVGVSTI IIII S C - Liberalitas nach links stehend; in der Rechten Münzdispenser,
in der Linken Füllhorn
RIC 577; C. 137
Ø 26 mm / 10,58 g ; Stempelstellung 11 h
Gruß
chinamul
Nil tam difficile est, quin quaerendo investigari possit
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Re: Severer-Special
na, das kann man ja wohl als schnäppchen bezeichnen, glückwunsch!
auf meinem bildschirm schaut es wie messing aus, sollte es dann nicht eher ein dupondius sein?
grüsse
frank
auf meinem bildschirm schaut es wie messing aus, sollte es dann nicht eher ein dupondius sein?
grüsse
frank
- ga77
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Re: Severer-Special
Sehr hübsch! Ich denke, dass der Scan täuscht, das ist sicher ein As!
Valete
Gabriel
Valete
Gabriel
- ga77
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Re: Severer-Special
Bei mir gab es wieder einmal einen Septimius Dupondius. Keine Schönheit, aber nicht häufig. Wer ein schöneres Exemplar verkaufen will, kann sich bei mir melden
Septimius Severus (193 – 211 AD)
AE Dupondius, Rome, 195
L SEPT SEV PERT AVG IMP V;
Radiate head right
ROMAE AETERNAE, S-C;
Roma seated left, on shield, holding Victory and spear
13,25 gr, 25 mm
RIC IVa, 697; BMC V, 565 (Pl. 24, 4); C. 617
Valete
Gabriel
Septimius Severus (193 – 211 AD)
AE Dupondius, Rome, 195
L SEPT SEV PERT AVG IMP V;
Radiate head right
ROMAE AETERNAE, S-C;
Roma seated left, on shield, holding Victory and spear
13,25 gr, 25 mm
RIC IVa, 697; BMC V, 565 (Pl. 24, 4); C. 617
Valete
Gabriel
- mike h
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Re: Severer-Special
Hallo Gabriel,
du sagst, der Dupondius ist keine Schönheit.
Ich würde sagen, die Schönheit ist noch nicht freigelegt. So wie der aussieht, geht da noch einiges....
Martin
du sagst, der Dupondius ist keine Schönheit.
Ich würde sagen, die Schönheit ist noch nicht freigelegt. So wie der aussieht, geht da noch einiges....
Martin
131 Köppe /201 (Kampmann)
1.) Ziel erreicht!
1.) Ziel erreicht!
- ga77
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Re: Severer-Special
Das Foto täuscht ein wenig. Die Auflagen sind steinhart und mit der Oberfläche verwachsen, da müsste wohl geglättet werden, und das will ich sowieso nicht
Vale
Gabriel
Vale
Gabriel
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Re: Severer-Special
gabriel,ga77 hat geschrieben:Das Foto täuscht ein wenig. Die Auflagen sind steinhart und mit der Oberfläche verwachsen, da müsste wohl geglättet werden, und das will ich sowieso nicht
Vale
Gabriel
geglättet wurde da sowieso schon! was da hilft ist eine komplette entpatinierung!
ein paar stunden (oder tage) im apfel-essig und du wirst dich wundern was da noch herauskommt!
grüsse
frank
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