mein Gordian III

[briac]

Hi everybody, I'm sorry but I don't speak german so I will only write in english...

I'm actually trying to refer all coins of Gordian III and like I'm also collector, I try to buy them too^^

I became member of this forum yesterday because I learn than, 2 members here are famous collectors of Gordian III so I would like to know them a little...

here is the 1st coin I would like to show you, clearly not the rarest but extremely well preserved for an as

IMP GORDIANVS PIVS FEL AVG laurate, draped and cuirassed but right seen from behind
P M TR P III COS P P Gordian sacrificing left over an altar
RIC 292
[ externes Bild ]
9.97g, 27.81mm

[donolli]

Hi briac and welcome to our Forum
This as is indeed a very decent specimen for the type. Congrats!
It's always a pleasure to get so know other collectors who are interested in the same subject as oneself. As you might have already noticed we have a large thread dedicated to Gordian's coinage.
http://www.numismatikforum.de/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=24275

Regards,
Olli

[briac]

I already saw the topic but I still didn't study it compleetly...

I also saw you spook about 1 of my coins of this forum (LIBERALITAS AVG II from Antioch) which I did publis on forumancientcoins.com

Regards

[ga77]

Hi briac and welcome as well

I have to disappoint you, I am not a collector of Gordian's coinage, but I collect Dupondii and Asses from Pertinax onwards, so I am quite interested in the coin you posted, all my coins of Gordian are also posted in the thread donolli linked to.

Indeed it is a very nice example of a scarce issue, at least compared to the undated types and it's struck on a decent flan, which isn't self-evident! So please feel free to show us more of your coins

Vale
Gabriel

[briac]

here is an other as I have in my collection, it's not a great quality but it's an unique specimen so I think everybody must like it

IMP CAES M ANT GORDIANVS AVG laurate, draped and cuirasse bust right seen from behind
AEQVITAS AVG S C aequitas standing left holding scale in right hand and cornucopia in left hand
[ externes Bild ]

[kc]

hello briac,
nice to see you here. I wonder what treasures you will show us.
best regards
kc

[briac]

Hi Kc, specially for you I show here my 1st quadriga I did buy it 3 year's ago near PF Jacquier

Actually I only know 1 other specimen of this incredible as which is probably an hybrid with a reverse of the 1st part of the 3rd issue. The other specimen in in Vienna museum and unfortunately I still don't have any picture...

IMP CAES GORDIANVS PIVS AVG laurate, draped and cuirassed bust of gordian right seen from behind
Rev P M TR P II COS P P Gordian standing left holding eagle-tipped sceptre in a slow quadriga advancing left
[ externes Bild ]
RIC 284

Only 2 types of as known with this obverse type both are problem of datation because the other (only 1 specimen known) is LIBERALITAS AVG III I got this information by Axel Jurging but unfortunatelly I don't have the picture...

[briac]

Here are 3 overstrucked sestertii of my own collection, those are the only overstrucked sestertii I ever saw and except the dupondius alredy showed here I only know a few antiochane antoninianii...

those coins are realy rare and important to identify the issues

1) IMP CAES M ANT GORDIANVS AVG laurate, draped and cuirasse bust seen from behind
PRO VOTIS DECENNALIBVS A AVG S C
[ externes Bild ]
the verry rare VOTIS DECENNA LIBVS SC type strucked over the PROVIDENTIA AVG S C type

This specimen show us than the VOTIS DECENNALIBVS type wasn't a special issue but a regular coin.

2) IMP GORDIANVS PIVS FEL AVG laurate, draped and cuirasse bust seen from behind
P M TR P VII COS GNAT S C Mars advancing right
[ externes Bild ]
overstruck of the quite rare P M TR P VII COS II P P S C on MARS PROPVGNAT S C

This specimen show us than the short titulature is the last of this issue and also than it was strucked simultaneously than the P M TR P VII COS II P P S C type so the theorical last issue of Mattingly don't exist.

3) IMP GORDIANVS PIVS FEL AVG laurate, draped and cuirasse bust seen from behind
F ICTORIA AET POR S C Victoria standing left
[ externes Bild ]

VICTORIA ATER S C overstrucked on FELICIT TEMPOR S C confimr the theori than the medium titulature was strucked simultaneously

On those sestertii there is no doubts possible about each type so it's easy to identify but on the dupondius of beachcomber it's not so easy

I bielieve than the previous identification was made with the help of the RIC and it's good but it's about impossible

here is the picture he just provide me

[ externes Bild ]

obverse IMP CAES GORDIANVS PIVS AVG radiate, draped and cuirassed but right seen from behind
Reverse VIRTVS AVG III Virtus sdanding left hoolding branch in right hand and a shield at foot

This obverse was used a realy short time during the 3rd issue, probably no more than 2 monthes!
The reverse of VIRTVSholding branch was used during the 3 periods of the 3rd issue
LIBERALITAS AVG III is clearly a reverse of the 3rd period of the 3rd issue even if this type is already known in as, dupondius, sestertius and antoninianus ( 1 specimen of as, 2 of dupondii, 1 or 2 of sestertii and no more than 5 of antonianii) and the 3 I at the end of LIBERALITAS AVG III does never arrive so near than the foot of the god.

The best explain I found is an earlyest type LIBERALITAS AVGVSTI II with more letters, it's simplest to find the 3 I so near of the foot of God

Like LIBERALITAS AVGVSTI II was strucked during the 1st part of the 3rd issue we can more simply explain this extremely interesting coin and we have so the sign than the type IMP CAES GORDIANVS PIVS AVG/ LIBERALITAS AVGVSTI II must existe and will probably appears in the next years...

[donolli]

these overstruck coins are quite interesting. I didn't even know such coins existed so far. Do you know something about the purpose why such coins were overstruck? I only knew that older coins sometimes were overstuck by later rulers but I didin't know about emperors overstucking their own coins.

Regards
Olli

[briac]

it's ususlly an error at the mint, the most famous theory was explain buy Curtis Clay in 2008 when HJ Berk sold the Melcher collection in Gemini IV where 1 overstrucked antiochene radiate was.

the explain in the catalog is

the true explanation is probably an unpublished idea of Colin Kraay's, expressed verbally to Curtis Clay in the early 1970s: It would appear that 2 reverse dies were being used alternately and at rapid tempo withone and the same obverse die, and the overstrikes occured when a finished coin was erroneously left in the obverse die and was struck again with the other reverse die. Such overstrucked reverse occur fairly frequently on Roman imperial sestertii and middle bronzes but only rarely on silver coins

[briac]

Gordians dupondii are all quite rare even if the RIC refer for all C or S

Here is a quite common dupondius (for me because I just buy my 3rd specimen

I actually know for this special coin

specimens in museums
London 1
Vienna 1
Paris 1
Berlin 1
Copenhagen 1

Other private collection
His 1
Jurging 1

here are my specimens

[ externes Bild ]
[ externes Bild ]
[ externes Bild ]

I only have 2 other dupondius in 2 specimen
SALVS AVG S C RIC 261
ABVNDANTIA AVG S C RIC 274

except those, in my collection are only 13 types of dupondii but I already refer 47 types or variant!

Most of the types missing in my collection are known by 1 to 3 specimens!

[donolli]

All of Gordian's dupondii seem to be quite rare indeed compared to his sestertii and even to his asses. And they have already been rare among his predecessors (Maximinus, Severus Alexander). Up to now, I've only got one specimen of this denomination (RIC 300c) in my collection.

Grüße
Olli

[einlieferer]

Very interesting coins, especially the quadriga is an outstanding rarity.
How about showing us the coin of your avatar?

[briac]

Congratulation Olli, your dupondius is an incredible coin, I only know few specimens of this quality in private collection!

My avatar is also an interesting coin

Here are informatin

IMP GORDIANVS PIVS FELIX AVG, laurate, draped and cuirassed but right seen from front
AETERNITATI AVG S C Sol standing left holding globe in left hand and right arm raising
[ externes Bild ]
RIC 297 note

Struicked with a medallic obverse die, I already know 12 specimens of this type.

2 or 3 others types was also strucked with the same obverse dies
P M TR P VI COS II P P Gordian advancing right (1 specimen known)
ADLOCVTIO AVGVSTI S C (2 specimens known both in museums)

Probably
P M TR P IIII COS II P P Appolo seated left

a few sestertii strucked on medallic flan ares also known with this obverse die like this one from source Lanz auction 100 lot 245 of 20 novembre 2000
[ externes Bild ]

[briac]

an extremely rare dupondius of Gordian which is even more rare because it's an hybrid coin unlisted by RIC

Only 1 other specimen known in Vienna museum

IMP CAES GORDIANVS PIVS AVG radiate, draped and cuirassed but right seen from behind
P M TR P III COS P P S C Gordian sacrificing patera over an altar on left
[ externes Bild ]

obverse of 239 and reverse of 240