2 britische Half Pennies mit kleinerem Durchmesser

[NumisMartin]

Hallo liebe Leute,

ich habe zwei britische Half Pennies, die einen kleineren Durchmesser als 25,50 mm haben

1932 George V. - ca. 23 mm
1950 George VI. - ca. 24 mm

Wenn man auf die Münzen draufsieht, sieht man, dass der 1-2 mm breite Rand fehlt.
Am äußersten Rand befindet sich gleich die Punktriffelung.
Der Rand - von der Seite aus betrachtet - sieht unauffällig glatt aus, man sieht keinerlei (Ab-)Schleifspuren oder sonstiges.
Die Münzen sehen sonst ganz normal aus.

Ist jemanden schon einmal eine solche Half Penny Münze untergekommen?
Sind das Raritäten oder hat hier jemand nur den äußersten Rand 'fachmännisch' weggeschliffen?

Eine Danke schön für die Rückmeldungen im Voraus.

[KarlAntonMartini]

Fotos wären schön. Theoretisch ist denkbar, daß die Stücke aus Versehen auf einem kleineren Schrötling geprägt wurden. Die Tower Mint prägte Geld für viele Länder, da gab es Verwechslungen von Schrötlingen, die nachgewiesen sind. - Aber es wäre erstaunlich, daß ein zu kleiner Schrötling dann zentriert geprägt wird, es wäre zu erwarten, daß er nicht ganz mittig auf dem Stempel liegt. Ich würde fürs erste vermuten, daß es nachträglich ausgestanzte Stücke sind, die für irgendeinen Zweck passend gemacht werden sollten. Die neue Größe würde der eines Shillings entsprechen. Und Shillinge mußte der Engländer in seinen Stromzähler werfen, um Energie zu erhalten. Aber es gab da noch mehr Automaten, die möglicherweise auf einen falschen Shilling reagierten. Grüße, KarlAntonMartini

[NumisMartin]

DANKE für die rasche Antwort. Beide Münzen sind schön zentriert gprägt, daher klingt die Erklärung mit den nachträglich ausgestanzten Münzen für mich sehr plausibel. Am äußersten Rand der Münzen sieht man auf beiden Seiten durchgehend, gleichmäßig die Punktriffelung, d.h. der 'Stanzer' hat das sehr exakt gemacht. Es sieht so aus, als ob die Münzen so 'gehören' d.h. genauso aussehen sollen. Ich werde bestimmt Fotos nachbringen, komme aber wahscheinlich vor dem Wochenende leider nicht dazu.
Bis dahin, beste Grüße, NumisMartin.

[villa66]

I think KAM has it. (I too think these are “shillings.”)

Below are two entries in my coin-notebook. The second entry was based on a magazine “filler” item I’d read in a coin magazine—unfortunately I can’t remember which one (although my best guess is an old issue of The Numismatist).

The first entry was written later, when I found the referenced piece and remembered what I’d read those years earlier….

---------------------------------------------------------------

x: It was a 1960 halfpenny like this one—although chrome-plated and cut down to a smaller diameter—that I found in a junk-box and didn’t bypass. Instead I picked it out and installed it in my collection because of the item below, which I’d read almost two decades earlier. Seems that in the Britain of the early-‘60s, halfpennies were often cut down to resemble shillings so they could be fraudulently used in water heaters. Two things about that piece surprised me, however. It was plated to resemble the shilling in color, and it was not “filed down” as I had read (which would have been a lot of work). Instead it had been sheared to size. (xx)

x: In the two years preceding the coining of this 1963 halfpenny, more than half a million similar coins filed down to the diameter of a shilling (so they would fit into water heaters) were returned to the Royal Mint from South Wales alone. (xx) P.S. I read “filed down,” but see above—at least some of them were sheared.

v.

[NumisMartin]

Dear Vila66,

I THANK YOU VERY MUCH for the comprehensive information provided and the opinion of KAM confirming response. I think, that 'we' finally have found the explanation for my question/ problem. Nevertheless, I will upload photos of the two coins in question at the coming weekend as promised

[villa66]

...I will upload photos of the two coins in question at the coming weekend as promised

Bitte!

v.

[KarlAntonMartini]

x: In the two years preceding the coining of this 1963 halfpenny, more than half a million similar coins filed down to the diameter of a shilling (so they would fit into water heaters) were returned to the Royal Mint from South Wales alone. (xx) P.S. I read “filed down,” but see above—at least some of them were sheared.

v.

I didn't know that the figures of upgraded halfpennies were so big. There must have stood a whole industry behind it. I remember these water heaters from showers in hostels or camping sites during the late seventies and afterwards. We had never enough coins, so my girlfriend took them and I got the cold shower. Best regards, KarlAntonMartini

[Mynter]

x: In the two years preceding the coining of this 1963 halfpenny, more than half a million similar coins filed down to the diameter of a shilling (so they would fit into water heaters) were returned to the Royal Mint from South Wales alone. (xx) P.S. I read “filed down,” but see above—at least some of them were sheared.

v.

We had never enough coins, so my girlfriend took them and I got the cold shower. Best regards, KarlAntonMartini

A true gentleman,if I may say so.

[villa66]

x: In the two years preceding the coining of this 1963 halfpenny, more than half a million similar coins filed down to the diameter of a shilling (so they would fit into water heaters) were returned to the Royal Mint from South Wales alone. (xx) P.S. I read “filed down,” but see above—at least some of them were sheared.

v.

We had never enough coins, so my girlfriend took them and I got the cold shower. Best regards, KarlAntonMartini

A true gentleman,if I may say so.

And smart, too!

v.

[villa66]

x: In the two years preceding the coining of this 1963 halfpenny, more than half a million similar coins filed down to the diameter of a shilling (so they would fit into water heaters) were returned to the Royal Mint from South Wales alone. (xx) P.S. I read “filed down,” but see above—at least some of them were sheared.

....There must have stood a whole industry behind it....

I think "industry" is a very good word for it. Seems like the only way to get to those kinds of numbers. Which is why I was happy to see my 1960-dated example--it had a mass-produced look. And made 500K a somewhat more believable number. (I had encountered Canadian large cents filed--or sanded--down to mimic 25-cent pieces, and it just seemed too laborious a process to be talking anything like 250K pieces a year. A machine-shop belt-sander might yield some surprising numbers, though.)

--------------------------------------

Great mention of the camping, and the coin shortage....

v.

[villa66]

...I remember these water heaters from showers in hostels or camping sites during the late seventies and afterwards. We had never enough coins...

I forgot to ask--were the coins you were using in the late-70's still shillings and their 5-pence successors?

v.

[KarlAntonMartini]

The old shillings and florins were used together with the new 5 p and 10 p until recently when the small size 5 p and 10 p were introduced. The old shillings and 5 p had the same size of the german 1 DM and were accepted by many cigarette-machines as such...Best regards, KarlAntonMartini

[diwidat]

Hallo,
in meiner kleinen Fälschungen-Sammlung liegen auch 2 manipulierte Stücke zur Vortäuschung von 1 D-Mark Stücken aus der Zeit der großen Wende (Zusammenschluss Ost und West).

Die D-Mark hat einen Durchmesser von 23,5 mm - der original Tscheche von 24,0 mm mit Riffelrand - und der Pole auch von 24,0 mm mit Schriftrand.
Beide manipulierten Münzen sind am Randdurchmesser bearbeitet. Der Tscheche ist professionell abgedreht und der Pole grob und primitiv beschliffen.
Zusammen mir den GB 5 Penny Stücken ein gutes Beispiel für den damaligen Automatenbetrug.
Gruß diwidat

[NumisMartin]

Hallo liebe Leute,

hier sind die versprochenen Fotos von den brit. Half Pennies mit kleinerem Durchmesser (statt 25,5 mm):
HP 1932 George V. ca. 23 mm
HP 1950 George VI. ca. 24 mm

Wie bereits erwähnt, sind die Münzen zentriert.

Liebe Grüße
NumisMartin

[KarlAntonMartini]

Danke fürs zeigen! Grüße, KarlAntonMartini