Unknown German coin ??

[pinpoint]

Friendly ask for help to determine this unknown coin .
We think it is a German coin , maybe 1 Heller ( Jülich / Aachen ??)
Diam. : 12 mm / 0,20 gr. / Mater. Billion -/Cu -Ar.
Letters between the legs of the cross : M P O V
Front : Adler

Any info is welcome

Greetz from The Netherlands , Pinpoint

[Gerhard Schön]

Der Adlerschild derer tom Brok und das Kreuz mit den Buchstaben I E V ER in den Winkeln verweisen das Stück nach Jever um 1400.
Gruß,
gs

[pinpoint]

Determination succeed :

Heller / Eagle Denier , Reckheim , Willem II ( Guillaume) van Sombreffe
1400-1450'
Letters in the cross : G V M P

Thanks for your help ! , Pinpoint

[Gerhard Schön]

As explained earlier, the coin is nothing to do with Reckheim, Jülich or Aachen, and the letters in the cross are neither MPOV nor GVMP but IEVER. The eagle shield belongs to the tom Brok family who had coins minted for the lordship of Jever in East Frisia around 1400.
Regards,
gs

[pinpoint]

Sorry

Coin of Reckheim

Greetz , Pinpoint

[Gerhard Schön]

Okay, someone has misattributed this coin to Reckheim. How does he explain his GVMP letters, by the way?
Regards,
gs

[pinpoint]

hello Gerhard ,

This coin is cataloged at : P Lucas .ref. nr. 34-66 , Reckheim , Guillaume
The letters : G V M P
GV = Guillaume ( Willem) , M = Moneta , P' = Reckheim
The exact det. will hopely be confirmd this weekend by : www.bonatiele.nl

Greetz , Pinpoint

[Gerhard Schön]

Look at your coin carefully, it is not a G but an E. And EV is not Guillaume. For this coin type, the letters around the cross indicate the place of minting and not the ruler. Also, how can a P stand for Reckheim? And have you ever thought about the eagle shield?
Regards,
gs

[pinpoint]

Hello Gerhard ,

The discription of the coin is found in Lucas .
Lucas is a well know competent numismatic catalog , specialised in coins of the Dutch Hagemunters of Reckheim and Gronsveld.
We see on this coin 4 letters and the letter P has an extra komma : P '
On your disciption of the Jever coin we must see 5 letters : I E V E R
Is it possible to show a picture of the Jever coin ? , so I can sent this to the Dutch en Belgium experts

Greetz , Pinpoint

[Zwerg]

Hoping to help a little bit.

Attached the only photo I could find online which might help
I have no access to Kappelhoff at the moment
Searching coinarchives for Reckheim showed nothing similar

Sold by WAG in 2006
Jever, Widzeld tom Brok um 1398-1399. Witten, Jever. IEVER IN OSTRIE Schild mit dem tom Brok'schen Adler / MONETA DE IEVER Befußtes Kreuz mit Vierpassrosette, in den Winkeln I - E - V - ER. Merzdorf -, Kappelhoff 27 (ungenau)

[Zwerg]

Just published in sixbid another Witten from Jever in better quality

http://www.sixbid.com/nav.php?lot=495&p=viewlot&sid=348

The lettering seems to be different from pinpoint's coin

Regards
Zwerg

[Gerhard Schön]

Many thanks to Zwerg for posting the two Witten (4 Pfennig) coin illustrations. It is obvious that they are companions of our Pfennig. While the first Witten has the same shape of the tom Brok eagle shield and the word IEVER as on the Pfennig, the second one with the Jever lion has the same style of cross but the letters IEVE arranged counterclockwise. When creating the Pfennig tools, the diemaker likely had no ER ligature punch at hand, and did not want to engrave it manually, so he used an M punch which obviously looked pretty similar to him on that small coin.
Regards,
gs

[numis]

Hi,

this entry is quite old, but anyhow it is worth to correct it.

According to:

Alfred Noss: Die Münzen von Jülich, Mörs und Alpen; München 1927

This coin is from "Gumprecht I. von Neuenahr" (1418 bis um 1422).
This "Heller" is listed as "6b" for Alpen (Germany).

Numis

[Albert von Pietengau]

Hi,

This is a really interesting discussion. Seeing only the coin I read "GVMP". Maybe the alleged G is an E, and the P is an I. But what's about the M? An ligated ER? Nice story about the engraver who had no ligated ER!

I must admit that I know nothing about the aristocrates that were taken into consideration.

Gumprecht I. seems to be plausible, far more than any other presumtion. The question is if it is correct.

Gerhard seems to be quite sure that he is right. Regarding the eagle, what is it that makes it the emblem of the tom Brok family? I can see nothing more than an eagle. Would be nice to show pictures.


Marry christmas
AvP

[Gerhard Schön]

This coin is from "Gumprecht I. von Neuenahr" (1418 bis um 1422).
This "Heller" is listed as "6b" for Alpen (Germany).

Gumprecht (GVMP) makes sense indeed, along with the eagle of Neuenahr.

Greetings,
gs